MASSIVE value Adrian. Props
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Frame Control: Control of the topics of focus and the meanings that are assigned to them.
This means leading the interaction not just from venue to venue but also conversation topics and controlling the flow of the interaction. You don't have to initiate every topic. You can also give approval to topics that are brought up. From there not being afraid to transition to others and lead. This sweeps girls off their feet. They really don't have to do anything.
In application 90% of the time from my own experience you'll have the frame in the beginning of the interaction. This is done because you are the one that started the conversation. She just was there. From there she will test your frame to see how strong it is. She throws congruence tests or even tries to take it away. A lot of the time for me I notice that whenever I lose it, it starts a chain reaction and the hook won't be that strong. Granted investment on her part is a crucial part of the process but if I am not steering things I lose it.
The second part of the definition is important because you are showing that no negative frames are going to be painted onto you. Things like "by X you mean Y" is exhibiting that you are not allowing yourself to be placed in a negative context that she sets up. You're in control of your own reality. Others will not dictate it. Humor is placed in this because I've found without it it only creates a tense interaction which leads to nowhere.
I see this all the time with naturals or people that can "flip the script". M8king Moves has posted countless examples. They essentially have frame control internalized. You don't have to acknowledge tests either. As long as you're displaying no emotional reaction to the test, AND by continuing the way things were you're not falling into that you should be fine. That's what I've found anyways. An example would be "you're a player". I could answer it in some crafty funny way and "reframe" it or spin in a positive way or I could ignore it and not acknowledge it and continue the way things were.
The stronger frame always wins. The weaker one will fall into the stronger one. The problem that I had for months and months with this is that it creates a competitive spin. Tim calls it the "you vs me". It was terrible because I found that even if I beat the girl in some way that I wasn't getting the lay. I think that's a reason why adding sexual spins are so effective to the interaction. They are a common ground for men and women to enjoy. If it is constructred correctly, noone should lose. I like sex and so does she. I had one girl that was very timid and shy and somewhat geeky so I didn't initially bring sex as a conversation topic. I'm finding though that with more confident women I can. I've read that it's not a good idea to do it with strippers because it indicates outcome dependence. I've never tried it. The point is you can still lead and dominate but in a context that is positive for both people. Frame bridging, you + me, whatever you want to call it.
Unreactivity is a concept that is incorporated with this topic. Now imagine two frames in the interaction. The one that is less reactive to the other will be the stronger of the two. I essentially don't want to jump emotionally as a result of her. Here's an example
What do you like to do?
I like to dance.
Oh really, I love dancing actually/Where do you go dancing?
Ultimately based on her answer we're reacting more than she is reacting to us.
Better example ...
You look like you can't dance
Excuse me! I CAN dance.
Let's go dance.
In this example by causing her to qualify herself, she is reacting to me. It is also showing that I am leading the interaction. This is a very typical me V you scenario. Here's a good example of a you + me scenario. I got this from Alex.
OMG I love this song. Let's dance -grabs arm and pulls her to the dancefloor.
In this scenario, he has established that he is in his own reality and brings her into it.
Last thing I've found and I got this from Ratisse, in one of his FRs. If you're hitting pretty good emotional buttons, she will try to frame you as entertaining. You can blow up her frame and make it funny.
You need to entertain me. I'm bored.
What about my needs?
Don't come off like a wimpy girl obviously. It should be funny. She'll laugh though and you can get her to invest more or do some of the fun conversation. Whatever.
The focus that I try to push is control. I'm not a control freak by any means. I'm pretty boring and blah. I find though that by falling into her vision of the scenario that I usually won't get where I want to go. I don't have to pick every single topic to discuss. I don't have to change her view on the world(I try to avoid all negative conversation topics, politics, religion, exes, money). I just try to be myself and have fun and include her in that. If she tries to put a negative dynamic on something, I really don't care. I just don't want her to take control. This is something that will put you in your head to death if you get super analytical about it like I just did. Rule #1 is a lot deeper than people think. You can't frame control someone that lives things the way they want to.
This is why amusing yourself is so important. I try to come into set at times and joke joke joke. If I push it too much it comes off like I'm doing it for them When I am not able to continue that, it's weird. I've lost it. They are giving approval to it. Now I try to have fun in all interactions with people unless it's not appropriate. This way it's a habit. I'm doing it because I want to have fun with myself.
Also if the girl purposely goes unreactive, you can tease her and call her out on her behavior. I got that from Tim's blog, Manwhore, and Charles Ou.
That probably covers most of establishing conversational dominance. (Leading it and giving approval to covered topics). "Being the screener"
2. Big displays of dominance.
The biggest one I've found is leading. I can talk talk talk but if I can't transition that to another place I lose it. I can get stuck in that place that we met in her mind (club guy, work guy). As a side note, I think it's essential to bounce around conversation topics on the first meet because it will help take you out of that place as club guy. "This guy likes to swim, bike, hike, does art, travels, races cars, salsa dances, plays sports, eats different kinds of foods, does martial arts, sings, hunts, reads, works with kids, creates things, or works out. He doesn't just come to clubs and pick up girls."
Some of you guys out there might notice that when you talk to your wings, you only talk about pickup. Then strangely enough you find out a month later that you guys are both into something else besides pickup. Now, honestly, if you guys hadn't painted that strict dynamic off the first meet of you both liking pickup and seeing each other as the wing don't you think you'd of found out that you liked the same shit sooner than a MONTH LATER!
Now take that same breakdown and expand it. You're talking to her and then you change locations. It could even be in another part of the club at first and escalate to another bar. This also crystallizes you as a person. What you're doing is you're getting rid of that "I didn't know you liked..." I hope that's clear. A lot of times you get this mental twitch when you see someone outside of the context you painted them. "I didn't know you liked..."
More importantly you're setting up a context that she is following you. You are leading things. She will get comfortable at this role. I have this habit of letting people lead. It's terrible and I'm trying to break it. Sometimes I fall into it. The thing I have noticed though is that once it's set as to who the leader is it becomes comfortable to lead. You don't have to think about leading. Interestingly, at times with people if I'm not leading I feel uncomfortable. Girls want the guy to lead off the bat. They are so used to leading though out of habit that if it becomes apparent that they have to they will.
Alpha girls are great social examples of leaders. They are comfortable confronting managers, policmen, and superiors about their issues. This is the truth. There are always exceptions of course. There are plenty of timid girls that want things dictated to them. I just try to get a sense of the type of person they are. The number one thing I find is show them that you can lead. You can take the reigns but don't be a control freak. Girls don't like control freaks. Honestly if you try to lead her through her life, right off the bat anyways, she'll push you away. Dominance is important but if anything can be overdone. I think that overbearing control freaks are actually good examples of weak people that HAVE to have things the way they want them.
There are exceptions galore in this. Tyler talks in Foundations how girls are able to quit smoking with him because he doesn't allow them to smoke around him. Tim told a story of a girl that hated house music and insulted it then when she went to meet him at his club she was totally transformed into a house music girl.
You can also escalate dominance. The compliance ladder is a good example. It begins by getting the girl to do small things and then escalating to bigger things. A small thing that I've seen could be "take off one heel, I want to see how tall you are". They start to get into this pattern of following you.
I just want to get to the point where when I'm leading she is comfortable with that. I don't really want to lead her hand and foot personally. I want a real woman that can take care of her own shit that has goals and a path. If I can pick up a girl and she is TOTALLY RELAXED and comfortable and trusts me, I'm where I want to be or very close.
I'm finding that girls are closers. If they want it bad enough they will take some initiative to find a way. I don't have to (or want to) diagram every little step.
Exceptions:
There are ALWAYS exceptions. Some guys aren't afraid to tell girls to "shut the fuck up". Some guys aren't afraid to tell girls "No, we're going to do this". You have to gauge it. The biggest thing I've seen is that if you're going to come strong like that, don't question yourself. There must be no sign of weakness at the CORE. If it's an act, you'll get slapped. If it's a good act, you're not getting a call back. If it's how you really feel on the inside, it will work or you're not getting a call back because she thinks you're a control freak to the core(just being honest).
Two things I'm finding with AVERAGE girls is that it's always a balancing act between DOMINANCE and EMPATHY. You do things you want to do but you have to have the compassion for her. Remember...exceptions, exceptions, exceptions. Some guys can kick a girl out of their house. "Get the FUCK out" when they get LMR and that WILL work for some girls. The girl will accept that her behavior was wrong and fuck him the next time. Others that will not work. It's a balancing act. Understand though that that girl was comfortable being lead by that guy so much that she accepted the frame that he put on her that her behavior was inexcusable.
A good example is if you're taking a girl to dinner, choose the restaurant, get the waiter, hold court. If it's fondu though and she can't eat cheese, don't go to fondu. See the empathy?
Now choosing the restaurant, getting the hostess and talking to the waiter are examples of a good lead. What if you order her food for her? It might work if she trusts you soo much and you can sell it as something that's amazing. It might not work because you're being a control freak over her life. It all depends on the person. I want a girl that wants to order for herself. That is my dream. For anyone out there that read this whole post, what I'm finding is the tens or turbos are the girls that want to order. If you try to take that away from them, you're not going to be chosen. She's probably had experience with a guy that was a control freak. Hot girls with dickheads ring a bell? I'm finding that if I sit back at times and let her do those types of things I stand out incredibly. There are always exceptions. I hope that is easy to understand. If you're an A, B, C step type of person you're going to have to get out of that headspace. This comes down to intuition. Some you can lead by the nose, others you can't.
The reason I talk about it in so much detail is because that is my biggest sticking point. I still need a lot of work on it. A lot. I hope that helps.
everything that I have used as an example, I myself have done in real life except for the extreme stuff like "STFU". I understand your objections to taking any bird's advice from a forum but I hope you can view it objectively. I hope you understand that being open to advice from a forum is only going to help you in the long run. I hope that post helped you.
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